Empower Yourself: Navigating and Healing From Narcissistic Friendships w. Jennifer

[00:00:00] I always thought when someone is brutally honest, well, that means they care. My good friends, if I have to walk on eggshells or if there are warnings, I don't look at it as a challenge anymore. They're deal breakers, but I don't think friendship should be a challenge.

[00:00:17] Welcome to Awaken Her, the podcast where women find their strength and transform their pain into power. I'm Corissa Stepp, your guide on this journey of healing, growth and empowerment. Here we share the real stories of women who have faced life's toughest challenges and

[00:00:35] emerged stronger, together with expert insights to light your path forward. Whether you're seeking to heal, grow or empower your life after heartache, Awaken Her is here to show you that not only is change possible, but you are capable of achieving more than you ever imagined.

[00:00:54] Let's dive into today's episode and take another step towards becoming your most empowered self. Hey, everyone, welcome back to another episode of Awaken Her. I'm your host, Corissa Stepp. And today I am joined by an amazing woman named Jennifer who's going to be chatting

[00:01:13] with me today about how to navigate and heal from narcissistic friendships. We're going to be diving into a little bit of backstory on Jennifer's experience with having a narcissistic friend. And then we're going to kind of go through a little bit of a flow where you might

[00:01:29] hear me coach her a little bit. I'm going to be asking her some questions so that you guys can better understand and be able to potentially identify in your own lives where maybe you have some

[00:01:38] unhealthy friendships that maybe you need to either let go of or set boundaries in. So, Jennifer, thank you so much for being here with me today. It's a pleasure. So, Jennifer, why don't we just kind of go into the background of maybe you sharing

[00:01:52] a little bit about this friendship that you had, maybe how long you had been in it, how close you were. And we can start to dive into like when you started to notice maybe that something was a little bit off.

[00:02:04] Well, we met before college and we were best friends ever since. We both went to the same college and I just admired her. I didn't think much about her characteristics. I didn't know anything about narcissism other than in my family, right?

[00:02:24] But I didn't realize some of her traits and characteristics until decades later. That was really hard for me. And honestly, I didn't even realize it was my daughter who said, Mom, she's an effed up douchebag. And I said, first of all, are you allowed to talk that way?

[00:02:45] Are you allowed to say that? And then I thought, well, that was pretty harsh. And she's never said anything like that about anyone. She was in high school at the time and she's someone I admire, all of my children.

[00:03:00] But the one in particular that said this, I'm not going to repeat it, but she said that. And I wound up defending my friend. Oh no, she's a good friend. Oh no, she's been my friend for 30 plus years. Oh no, we know each other so well.

[00:03:12] Later on when I was able to connect the dots, and I remember taking a footnote in my head, like, oh, what is she saying to me? OK. And I let it rest for a while. And just throughout the years, you know, she lived about an hour from me.

[00:03:28] And I used to go to her house and visit. I was going through a divorce at the time. And I just really needed the support from friends. And I just needed to be around a best friend, so to speak,

[00:03:39] just so I can be myself, be around people who love and care about me. But another footnote was every time I left her house, and I stayed in the guest room, so it was a whole weekend thing, you know, we...

[00:03:53] I had this horrible sick feeling in my stomach. And I never understood where that came from. I recognized it from other relationships that I had been in, you know, whenever I left my sister's house after Thanksgiving. I had that same feeling in my stomach.

[00:04:09] And I can't describe it other than that. It was just... I felt so empty. And it was horrible. It was, you know, sometimes I would cry, sometimes I wouldn't. But that was another clue. But again, you know, I blame myself. Oh, it's something to do with me.

[00:04:26] And I would make excuses for her even to myself. But it really wasn't... Karissa, it really wasn't until years later when I really needed her. And she wasn't there for me. I really wanted this job really bad. And I had gone back to school and got certifications,

[00:04:45] and working at the hospital that I was applying for was very important to me. And she knew it because we spoke every day. For 30 years, every single day. She knew how important it was for me. And she herself is a doctor of audiology,

[00:05:01] so she was going to give a reference to me. I actually have been on so many interviews at that point. I knew exactly what she had to say. So I gave her a script on what to say. Yes, she's reliable. Yes, she's, you know...

[00:05:14] Time management skills are wonderful. She's reliable. She's kind. And I didn't get the job. I was devastated. I'm upset because the HR person said to me, very matter of fact, listen, you're not a really good fit. And I said, OK, I think I am.

[00:05:32] And so I can learn from this interview process or my resume or any kind of skills or anything you're looking for. I would really benefit a lot. And I won't take it personally, I just want to learn.

[00:05:43] She said, well, first of all, I would never use that reference again. Wow. And that was it. I didn't get the job because of the reference. So I called her and I told her what the HR person said to me. And she first denied it.

[00:05:57] I would never do anything like that. But then I didn't believe her for the first time. I gave her some pushback. And I guess she wasn't used to having me be like that. She would deflect. Like, well, what do you want to work in a hospital for anyway?

[00:06:11] This time I was like, no, I'm not having it. The excuses she gave and the things she said weren't making sense and nothing was adding up. She was just talking in circles. She swore up and down and that it's the HR person who's not telling the truth.

[00:06:27] And I was like, I really don't think so. I believe the HR person. So the thing that struck me and it was like I double whammy because she never once, not only does she not apologize for the lousy reference, right? It eventually came out that she said,

[00:06:45] well, I didn't want to say anything too good because then it wouldn't be realistic. And I said, oh, but all I did was listen. And she was lying because her story wasn't straight. I feel like narcissists often they will mince words

[00:07:00] and they'll blame shift, but then they're kind of like admitting that they've done something but they're not really taking accountability. She did not want to be at fault, but I can accept that. Okay, so there's other people in my life that just are accountable,

[00:07:15] but they refuse to be accountable and don't want to apologize. But the problem I had with my friend was her lack of empathy. She never said, I'm really sorry you didn't get the job you worked so hard for. I'm really sorry, I'm upset for you

[00:07:30] or I know how much this meant to you. I mean, the good news is fast forward, I worked at a different hospital in the trauma and surgical ward for two years and it was a great experience as I knew it would be.

[00:07:44] What mattered was that she wasn't there for me when I needed her the most. I just never wanted to speak to her again. I just wanted to cut off ties because at that point that's when I was connecting all the dots,

[00:07:57] all those little footnotes that I was taking over the years. Maybe my daughter was right. It was just too hard for me to believe and how could everybody else see it but me? And why was I making excuses for her? That's my friend, that's Lori, she's being herself.

[00:08:10] She cares because I always thought when someone is brutally honest and horrible insulting, well, that means they care. They want you to do better. There was already a pattern that was in place where you already were accepting breadcrumbs in your other relationships because that's what was...

[00:08:29] And it was familiar to you and that's why this friendship lasted for as long as it did and why you made so many excuses. It's because that pattern was familiar. So familiar. That makes sense. It was terrible but... I hope you're not feeling bad

[00:08:44] that you didn't see it sooner. But I do, yeah. I mean, she was my best friend. So I had agreed that I don't have my best friend to speak to every day. And when you get older, you can make new friends but you don't make old friends.

[00:08:58] It was just very sad for me and lonely. It really was. Especially because you were going through a tough time in life when this happened. Divorce, single mother of four, all under the age of 12. I had a lot going on but yet I was tough

[00:09:12] and still taking care of myself. I still wanted to work and I enjoyed it. It was something I did for me and I remember she couldn't stand that, that I wanted to do something great for myself. That I was trying to better myself

[00:09:29] because she was always so competitive with me for some reason and I never gave her any reason to be. I don't think but she's always gloating at her bonus and how great she's doing and her promotion at work. And when I had a hard time going on interviews,

[00:09:45] the only thing she said to me was, well, I would never have a problem. I get any job I interview for. So she was just so unsupportive and like I said, I was just connecting all those dots. I didn't even realize half the time I was taking footnotes

[00:10:00] so I guess somewhere in my gut I knew maybe, I don't know, you tell me, why did I have so many dots to connect? This was a few years ago but still. We always try to, I think when relationships end, we tend to do that Monday morning quarterbacking

[00:10:17] and we might be stuck in that for a while until we can understand why that relationship ended because that's sometimes the only way we're gonna get closure. Other times it's like, we're still hoping that maybe we'll get an apology from this person or that they'll reach out

[00:10:34] and show that they do actually care because the pain of acknowledging that someone whom we felt very close to may not have actually really cared the way we believed that they had can feel like such a deep betrayal

[00:10:51] and the pain of that triggers these inner wounds within us that say that we're not important or that we're not lovable or that we're not enough. So it triggers those wounds that we hold that were instilled in us

[00:11:05] as a result of things that had happened to us previously like in our childhood, right? That's trauma, it's from trauma and our nervous system is doing its best job at trying to protect us from actually feeling that.

[00:11:17] And if we can reason it away and we can understand it, we can rationalize it, that's not the reason why that there was some other reason for it then we can feel a little bit better, we can feel a little bit safer,

[00:11:28] we can feel like we have a little bit more closure. So if they start to take accountability for their behavior and they come and they apologize or they tell us that they were wrong or they show us that they actually do care

[00:11:40] then that pain doesn't have to be felt maybe, right? I still feel the pain. I probably always will, but it's easier. I can compartmentalize and put it in its place and I know it wasn't me. And that's what it's all about.

[00:11:55] It's so funny you say that about the apology because all she had to do was apologize. Yes. And we would still be friends to this day which is so sad because she wasn't a good friend and I know that now. But back then when this happened

[00:12:10] which was six years ago, actually, six years ago, all she had to do was, you know what? I effed up, I'm sorry. I probably should have just did what you said with the script. I'm so sorry, Jennifer. It won't happen again. Done. Because I'm a forgiving person

[00:12:26] and especially if she owned up to it. But she made every excuse in the book and continued to lie. And tried to convince you that you didn't really want that job. You didn't wanna be going to that hospital. You don't wanna work in a hospital, right?

[00:12:39] She was never supportive of my hobbies and interests and things that I've done in my career. We both went into education together and then one day she came to me in college and said, no, I'm going into audiology. There's more money in that. Well, come with me.

[00:12:51] And I was like, no, I'm good. I'm gonna stick with education. I really like it. She just never cared about what was important to me unless it was important to her as well. And that's a very typical sign of a narcissist.

[00:13:06] Differences make them feel threatened in a lot of ways. They like someone to kind of go along with their plan, their wants, their needs, who they are. Because those similarities mean that one's not better than the other. And for narcissists, a lot of times they believe

[00:13:26] in this idea that there is a finite amount of power. So you either have it or you don't. And if they have the power, then great. That means you have none. And if you're doing something similar and you're doing, if you were both in the same field

[00:13:43] and if you started to do really well and ascend a lot more quickly through the corporate ladder, through the career trajectory or started getting higher paying jobs or whatever than she did, then you would have been a threat. And she would have done whatever she could

[00:13:56] to tear you down. But the fact you were pursuing something that maybe in her mind she had a belief that money was more important than happiness or that whatever it was that caused her to go into audiology, right? It sounded like from your story

[00:14:09] and what you shared is that she was like, oh, I'm gonna make more money. That's what she said. She stuck with it. And she was the breadwinner in the family. She was married with one child. Money can equal power. Absolutely was very powerful to her.

[00:14:22] She liked being in control of her husband and child. From my perspective, I admire her for that. Oh, I wouldn't be like that or I didn't grow up with that. So I was always attracted to a friend who was competent, career oriented, smart, intelligent.

[00:14:39] She was all of those things, but she was everything else that was unappealing. I had a very high tolerance. Everybody in the land is happy and that way I'll be happy. It just seemed easier. Prioritizing harmony, that pattern plays really nicely

[00:14:56] in with the narcissist who wants to control all the time, or who again is not gonna take that accountability because if you're constantly maybe taking accountability to keep the peace or you're apologizing to keep the peace or you're working harder in the relationship to keep that friendship going,

[00:15:15] to keep the peace, to keep the harmony, to keep the relationship, then the narcissist never has to have empathy or remorse or take accountability. No, she never did. I never felt that reciprocity whatsoever. She was on many occasions thoughtless and I always made excuses.

[00:15:33] She always wanted me to go to her house and she always would lure me in because she knew I didn't like to cook or I had to cook all the time for my kids. So on the weekends, she'd be like, come over, I'll make you dinner.

[00:15:44] And I would get there and they would be guacamole with one avocado and there would be four of us. How's that gonna work? I always just felt shortchanged by her and she knew how to lure me in and she did a good job of it.

[00:16:01] So I'm curious, looking back on the relationship, are you able to identify or see like the abuse cycle like kind of playing out time and time again? It could look like excessive flattery, a lot of attention or maybe praising you in some ways for like little things,

[00:16:18] maybe they're kind of superficial things or whatever, but there can still be that idealization phase from that phase on, we then enter into like the devaluation phase. They'll devalue you, they'll criticize you, they'll belittle you, they'll demean you in some way. They might be very dismissive of you

[00:16:37] and then the discard phase where maybe they start to kind of push you away and maybe they're not being very nice. But then once that happens, if they notice that's their way of getting control back, if they felt like maybe you were starting

[00:16:49] to have a little bit more power because maybe you set a boundary or you asked a question or you pushed back on something and then they try to push you away and then they'll come back and they'll try to hoover you back in, right?

[00:17:00] Like suck you back into the relationship by inviting you to dinner, or going out of their way for you in some way that makes them feel like they're gonna win you back. You know, when we were talking on the phone

[00:17:11] and I accused her of what the HR person had told me and she said no, and she didn't apologize and we didn't talk at all for weeks. I felt as though that was her discard. She never called me to see how I was doing or to apologize.

[00:17:29] Years later, it's so funny, years later she called me. She moved from New Jersey to North Carolina and she was texting me pictures. I was like, excuse me, time is not an apology. You think I'm good with you?

[00:17:44] No, like she just wanted to pick up where we left off which was so odd to me. Like she wanted to resume our friendship and I wasn't having it. I was just like, no, I'm not interested. And she didn't even ask how I was.

[00:18:00] Over the years, we would fade in and out. Did you get married first before she did? I believe I did. I just thought, you know, she didn't like the lifestyle I was living and we didn't have much in common anymore. So she was still living in Boston.

[00:18:14] I had moved to New York. I was married and I had moved on. I had a good job. I was working as a teacher. Maybe that's what I never heard from her. I don't know now that I think about it. And then she was getting married

[00:18:27] to the person that I introduced her to in college. They were finally getting married after living together and we were invited, but I wasn't her maid of honor and neither was her high school best friend. She chose my former roommate as her maid of honor

[00:18:45] but I never questioned it. I just thought, you know, maybe that person was around more. I just let it go. So then when she moved to New Jersey with her husband, our friendship picked up because she didn't have a lot of friends in the neighborhood.

[00:18:59] Yeah, it's natural for friendships to kind of go through these cycles of being close and then life kind of pulls you apart a little and then you get close again and that's completely and totally normal. But if it felt more like rejection

[00:19:13] in those periods of quiet because she was jealous or maybe, you know, she felt like you were getting something that she didn't have that she wanted. You know, like if you felt like throughout the friendship that maybe that you had to walk on eggshells around her

[00:19:28] then that would probably be an indication that, okay this is not really a healthy relationship or maybe you felt like you always had to temper what you shared with her because it might upset her in some way especially if it was like really good news, right?

[00:19:45] Because I think a lot of times when we're in a friendship with a narcissist, we might not really share with them how excited we are over an opportunity or like something great that's happening in our lives because if we start to share a little too much

[00:19:58] about all the good things that are happening in our lives and we're super excited about them and if they don't respond in a way where we feel like they're cheering us on, we might start to like minimize it, right? We might start to just tell them

[00:20:11] about all the bad things because we know that when we tell them about the bad things, they're maybe a little bit more receptive to it because in some ways like they're happy that things are not going well for you. Well, before I got certifications

[00:20:24] to work in the hospital, I was just trying to figure out what I wanted to do and I'm a curious person, I love to learn so I was selling insurance at the time, life and health and I had asked her, can I come to your office

[00:20:38] and offer it as supplementary insurance? And she said no, she made every excuse. She didn't want me to succeed. She just said no. Up and down, I wouldn't explain why. What really hurt was she had told me that she was having dinner with another friend of ours

[00:20:58] and they were saying bad things about me being in the insurance business and I don't recall her sticking up for me and that really hurt, really bad. Most friends would be like, oh my God, she was saying these things and I was standing up for you

[00:21:12] or I was like really upset and I think you should just know that this other person was saying something that wasn't really kind but it sounds to me like she was actually telling you the terrible things that they were both saying.

[00:21:24] Well, I think she wanted to be a hero. She wanted to sound like she was being my friend even though it sounded to me that she wasn't. I was hurt by it and I don't know why I didn't tell her. I just didn't wanna be a difficult friend.

[00:21:38] Rock the boat. Rock the boat, I don't know. It took years before I was able to create healthy boundaries and stick up for myself and I'm glad I'm no longer a friend magnet. If I can't trust someone,

[00:21:51] if I feel as though they're not gonna stick up for me in a room that I'm not in, not that interested. You have friends for different things and that's okay too but my A-team, my good friends, if I have to walk on eggshells or if there are warnings,

[00:22:08] I don't look at it as a challenge anymore. They're deal breakers. I don't think friendship should be a challenge. No and I don't think we should ever feel like our friends aren't supporting us. That's what we're there to do is cheer each other on and support one another

[00:22:22] and that's what friendship is all about and if you feel like in those moments where you're struggling with something, right? It's like your hardest moments in life and if you're going to a friend and they're not able to hold space for you

[00:22:38] just to even share how you feel in a way where you don't feel like you're being judged or criticized or dismissed in any kind of way, if we're not getting that in the friendship, why do I have you in my life?

[00:22:49] You know what I always felt like she just was my friend so she could feel better about herself because whenever I was going through a difficult situation, she was calling me twice a day. How are you? How are you? How is it? She acted like she cared

[00:23:02] and if things were going really well, she would one up me. I just stopped telling her good things. I just stopped. Yeah, that's a red flag right there but sometimes we don't have that awareness in the moment. It took a really important event like that interview.

[00:23:17] It was just something I really wanted so bad and she sabotaged it and couldn't even apologize. Right, and it's amazing to me that you would have still kept the friendship, right? Because I think so many of us, we can see the humanness in other people, right?

[00:23:32] They make mistakes. We can accept and we can forgive that they're not perfect and things happen sometimes. The thing is, is if it's hurting you but if they continue to do that over and over and over again where they're just kind of excavating

[00:23:46] or ripping the wound open even more with their actions over time, they're not changing their behavior, right? Or it's just not healthy for us to stay in it. So on the one hand, it's almost like that experience as hurtful as it was and how devastating it was.

[00:24:06] There was a purpose to it and that purpose was to get that person out of your life because they weren't good for you. She just kept hurting you over and over again. Death by a thousand paper cuts, that's what I call it. It's so subtle that it doesn't,

[00:24:21] you don't really pay attention to it. You're like, oh, it's a paper cut. Like it'll heal, it'll be fine, I'm good. Over time, if you're doing that and you're getting a paper cut in the same exact spot every single time, it's going to get deeper.

[00:24:34] There is a deep wound. There is a really deep wound that I was just covering superficially with a bandaid. Based on my upbringing in the household I grew up in, this pal's in consideration in comparison but yet at the same time, it was oddly familiar.

[00:24:52] And I think that it hurts sometimes even more when it's a friend than your family are like, I didn't really get to choose them. I didn't have a choice. I had to just learn how to deal and how to adapt. And these patterns were things that were familiar

[00:25:07] or became familiar before I was even consciously aware that they were patterns. So sometimes it's easier almost, I think, to forgive some of that and to separate it and move on. Whereas with friends, it's like we're choosing them. Whereas sometimes with family,

[00:25:24] it's like we kind of just take for granted, of course I'm going to talk to them and of course I'm going to probably see them. But we don't really necessarily work on the relationship. Sometimes we put more energy into our friendships

[00:25:34] than we do into our family of origin relationships. Where maybe again, those patterns, it's where they became familiar is because of what we've experienced in the past. I mean, my family of origin is definitely half the problem but having narcissistic friends just seemed familiar.

[00:25:54] And I just felt like a magnet for it. It made me feel accepted and safe. It's so odd, I wasn't safe, not with family, not with my friends. So then why did I feel safe? And I have to change the word, it's just familiar. It wasn't safe.

[00:26:12] And that's what I've been doing the last few years and it's really helpful. A lot of times, the reason why sometimes we feel safe in these relationships is because we learned in childhood that our emotions were not safe to feel.

[00:26:29] We couldn't go to anyone else with how we were feeling because when we did, we were either disappointed, we were maybe neglected, our emotional needs were neglected or someone else's needs were more important than ours. And it could be a combination of all of those things.

[00:26:44] We learn what is essentially like ultra independence of I've got this, I can handle this. I don't need to talk to anyone about it. We don't seek it out. We don't expect it because we've never had it because I knew subconsciously that it was not safe.

[00:27:01] It was safer to be independent. So I learned to struggle alone. And if I did ever reach out for help, I always felt like a burden or an imposition if I asked for help. You really hit the nail on the head with that one

[00:27:16] because I was a burden. I felt like a burden in childhood. So I never wanted to be a burden to my friends because then they would not wanna be my friend. Oh, I don't wanna be a pain in the butt. I don't wanna ask for anything.

[00:27:30] I don't wanna be a burden. And a lot of times I felt like a burden. It's hard because there's vulnerability in asking for help. There's vulnerability in asking especially for emotional support. And if we've learned time and time again, it's led to more pain, more hurt

[00:27:49] than we just avoided altogether. And we chalk it up to us not wanting to impose. And I think if listeners are listening and they're like, well, how do I know if this friendship that I'm in is healthy or not?

[00:28:00] Like one of the other things I think that's a good gauge is looking at the relationship and looking at it almost like as a scale of how much energy am I putting into this friendship and how much am I kind of getting out of it, right?

[00:28:11] Am I feeling completely and totally drained to your point back in your story when you're talking about every time you left your best friend, that you felt horrible and you didn't feel good. That's a red flag. That's an internal red flag

[00:28:23] to let you know that something was off. Your body was like, I can't do it anymore. Like, I'm done. I don't feel good. This doesn't feel good because if there's not an even exchange and like there are times where we need

[00:28:35] to offer more support than maybe we might get because someone else is going through something that is really relatively more difficult potentially, right? And then on the other side, like there'll be times where maybe we're going through something that's hard at the moment

[00:28:50] and our friend might be okay. And so maybe they're giving us more support. But as long as like the scales are sort of like balancing out in the wash, I would say, and you're feeling like after you interact with this person, you still feel like energized

[00:29:03] and you still feel like yourself. You still feel like you can be yourself. You feel like you don't have to walk on eggshells. You feel like, you know, your words are not getting minced. You can end up having a difficult moment in the friendship

[00:29:16] and maybe there is some sort of disagreement or whatever. If you're walking away from an interaction and you're feeling really confused because you're not really sure what exactly happened, maybe what you did even wrong. However, you're walking away and you're still feeling very confused

[00:29:30] about what's actually the problem because maybe they're catastrophizing something and it doesn't really make sense that they're that upset about it. Then like say, what is really happening here? Is this a good dynamic for me? Is this something that I wanna continue

[00:29:44] to invest my time and my energy in? Right, so I'm working on just establishing friends with new people who authentic and who are nice. I don't need anything else. So let's reframe because something that you said earlier in our conversation was you can't make old friends

[00:30:01] but you can still make good friends. That can happen at any point in your life and the connections that you make with people now with the work that you've done on yourself, those connections are gonna be even more authentic than some of those old connections that you had.

[00:30:17] You're a different person now. I am. And so don't feel like you're missing out, right? The only thing that is important is who you are today and this version of you. I don't know if you feel this way but sometimes I feel guilty about the unhealed self

[00:30:36] from years and years and years ago. How many friends or potential friendships did I just overlook and dismiss? So now I just feel open. So when it comes to me again, I can receive it in a healthy way and not run from it.

[00:30:53] I truly believe that every experience, every relationship that we have is for a reason. There's something about ourselves that we need to understand better or be more aware of. We might be a catalyst for somebody else for them to learn something about themselves

[00:31:11] or for a lesson that they need to learn. You were exactly where you needed to be, walking the path you were meant to walk to get you to the point that you're at today. You know how to value your time. You know what feels authentic

[00:31:24] and what doesn't feel authentic. So now any relationship or person that comes into your life, if they don't value you or they don't make you feel safe, you're not wasting your time on them anymore. Are there any final thoughts that you'd like to leave us with?

[00:31:38] Having friends should feel good. You shouldn't feel any angst or insecure. That's what friends are for, to cheer you on, to encourage you and to let you cry and not judge you. And it's worth it. Everyone deserves that. Definitely. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom,

[00:31:57] your experiences with us and everything that you've learned as well because it's easier I think to see ourselves in other people's stories sometimes than it is to kind of see it in our own lives at times. Like it's just easier. I can relate to that.

[00:32:11] And I hope just being in stronger helps you see that you're not alone because so many of us have had these shared experiences too. We can see that other people have experienced and feel the same way and can understand it in a way where we get the support,

[00:32:24] we get the validation. And healing is a process. It just doesn't happen overnight and there's no benchmarks for it. I'm gonna be healing the rest of my life and I'm okay with that. I'm happy with that. I've reached a certain point where thank goodness I crossed the bridge.

[00:32:41] And so now I can just heal further and further but I've healed, I feel enough. Thank you so much. So let's just recap real quick some of what Jennifer experienced in her narcissistic friendship because I think that it's really important to highlight

[00:32:55] to make sure that you are able to identify then maybe some of these red flags if you are experiencing them in your close relationships. So number one, one of the things that was really very clear was that in Jennifer's relationship with her narcissistic best friend,

[00:33:11] the thing that caused the biggest falling out in their relationship came about because her best friend felt criticized. She felt like she had been found out in some way. Narcissists don't like being exposed for who they are because they have created such a grandiose self image

[00:33:30] in their mind that when someone sees through that and starts to see their flaws or starts to become more aware of the lies, the deceit and the manipulation that might be happening, they feel very called out. And in those moments, they're likely to get very defensive

[00:33:50] because they don't like feeling like perhaps maybe they are inferior to you. Their superiority is very important to them. They need to feel special. They need to feel important. And that's because they hold these deep inner wounds that say otherwise. And so what they don't like

[00:34:08] is they don't like being confronted. They don't like it when you stand up for yourself because what that means then is that they're losing control of the narrative, they're losing control over you. When you confront them, you are showing them that their manipulative tactics are no longer working.

[00:34:28] And so that means that they have less control. That means that they're not in charge anymore and they're not in control of how maybe you even perceive them. In the past, those tactics have worked to keep you quote unquote in line, right?

[00:34:44] To keep you sort of almost even under their spell. It means that if you've confronted them, if you've criticized them, if you have stood up for yourself or you've exposed them for their manipulative tactics, then that means that you actually can see beyond the mask

[00:35:01] that they are wearing. That mask that they are wearing is this grandiose version of themselves. It's this inflated and overconfident persona that they have been displaying or performing in order to feel superior, to feel more important, to make you feel like you are less.

[00:35:20] So if you're able to see beyond that mask and you're able to identify or see through to maybe what their insecurities are, what their wounding might be or to the actual truth, that could even look like you identifying what perhaps maybe their underlying motivations might be

[00:35:38] behind some of their behavior. They feel very called out. They feel vulnerable. And this persona that they have built up over time was an attempt to hide those vulnerabilities, to keep those insecurities exiled and out of view, out of sight. Those insecurities, those vulnerabilities

[00:35:57] make them feel less in control and it makes them feel like they're not worthy. So when you call them out, when you criticize them, when you confront them, when you question their motivations behind their behaviors, they feel like they've lost control.

[00:36:16] They feel like you might actually see them for who they are and they're not comfortable with who they are. They're very insecure. So they're going to try to do whatever they can to convince you that that's not true, right? That their tactics and that their lies

[00:36:32] are either not true or that you are wrong, right? And that you are the problem or that they were right or justified in their behavior and they'll do whatever they can to make you feel worse, to make you feel like it's not okay for you to speak up,

[00:36:49] that you're wrong in your perception of them, that you're wrong in your perception of them. And it's because you've shattered their self-image that has been built upon these insecurities and vulnerabilities that they're trying to hide that masks all of it.

[00:37:05] And I think you could see that in Jennifer's story when she was sharing with us what happened when she confronted her best friend about the conversation that she had with this potential employer when she was giving her referral. And so I think that that's really important

[00:37:19] to understand that sometimes these friendships can go on for years and years and years and likely it's because we have never really confronted the narcissist before, because maybe we've never criticized them before or their actions or their motivations. Maybe we haven't perceived that the tactics

[00:37:36] that they've been using are actually very manipulative because we've been excusing away their behavior because we think we understand where they're coming from. We know the painful past maybe that they've had or the struggles that they've been enduring because the narcissist will make it very clear

[00:37:53] that they are the victim. They will make it very clear that they've experienced really hard times to almost fuel the excuses that you are going to spit back at them or that you are going to accept when they behave badly, right?

[00:38:08] The excuses you're gonna make for their bad behavior. So they literally are constantly fueling that empathy engine within you to make the excuses for their bad behavior until it gets to a point where you see through it.

[00:38:22] And once you see through it and you confront them with it or you stand up for yourself, maybe by setting a boundary, that's when they will either blow the relationship up and engage in a very painful devaluation and discard of the friendship of you

[00:38:42] or they will try to manipulate you and twist things around to make you feel that their behavior was your fault. But if you've come to see them for who they are and you know very clearly that it wasn't your fault, that their behavior is not your fault

[00:39:01] or someone else's or something else's and if you stick to your guns, they're not gonna like it. They're gonna push back. They're going to potentially say really hurtful things to you to make themselves feel better because they know deep down, they know that their behavior is wrong,

[00:39:19] that they are insecure. They know that this persona that they have built up likely at a deep cellular level is not really who they are. They've been performing and maybe they don't recognize that because a lot of times, narcissists don't have enough self-awareness to really see that.

[00:39:33] I hope that in listening to Jennifer's story that you find some comfort in knowing that if you have endured a narcissistic relationship, yes, it can feel really hurtful and it can be very confusing, especially when you feel like you know somebody

[00:39:49] or when you felt like you had a close friendship and when you realize that maybe they didn't have your best interests at heart, that maybe they were self-motivated, that perhaps the way in which you had been treated in that relationship was not healthy for you.

[00:40:04] It can be devastating and it can be really hard and it can be heartbreaking and it can feel isolating and it can feel as though the relationship was built under false pretenses in some way and of course, that can also be true for an intimate partner relationship.

[00:40:20] Sometimes with friendships though, it can even cut a little bit deeper because oftentimes, especially in our younger years, we'll have partners come in and out of our lives but our friends for the most part will stay the same and so if we don't recognize

[00:40:33] that this pattern is happening in our friendships with the people that have been with us or part of our journey for a long period of time, it can really cut deeply. What I want you to know though is that it is possible to recover,

[00:40:44] it is possible to heal, it is possible to learn to trust again. Sometimes after these experiences, we begin to not trust our ability to discern whether or not someone is good for us or not or we might think that we're not good at assessing someone's character

[00:41:00] and so we might hold back and not allow new people to come into our lives. We might feel reticent to connect with them vulnerably because we're afraid that our vulnerability is going to get manipulated or used against us by another unhealthy person.

[00:41:15] So it's giving yourself time and space to rebuild your confidence, your self-esteem, your self worth so that you can have the courage to slowly begin to connect with others again in a way that feels authentic for you and the only way that we can create authentic connections

[00:41:33] is by being vulnerable and yes, being empathetic but where we're not allowing ourselves to make excuses for someone else's behavior that is hurting us or where another person is trying to seize power or control. Sometimes in these narcissistic friendships, the narcissist doesn't like it

[00:41:50] when you have a difference of opinion or if you're not on the same wavelength as that, meaning that you don't share the same line of thinking about things, right? So if you find that you're in a friendship with somebody and the minute that you voice dissent

[00:42:05] or the minute that you voice a concern or an opposing opinion, if that's not well received, that's something to pay attention to. In authentic and meaningful friendships and connections, there should be open-heartedness, open-mindedness in order for those connections to be healthy and to thrive.

[00:42:23] So know that number one, you're not alone. Number two, there are lots of people out there who are looking for healthy, meaningful friendships and that once you start doing this work on yourself, you can begin to attract those types of people into your life

[00:42:36] and you can do that safely by setting boundaries. We often get into relationships with the narcissist in general because we don't have healthy boundaries. So having healthy boundaries is one way to ensure that you don't end up in these toxic friendships and in these toxic relationships.

[00:42:52] I hope that helps. Thank you for tuning in to Awaken Her. Today's conversation may have ended, but your journey towards healing and empowerment is ongoing. Remember, every challenge you face is an opportunity to grow stronger and more resilient. If our stories today inspired you, consider sharing this episode

[00:43:10] with someone who needs these empowering messages. I'm Karissa Stepp, cheering you on as you take the steps to heal, grow and transform your life. Keep believing in yourself and until next time, stay empowered.