Moment 003: Empathy In Action w. Laura Silverstein

[00:00:00] If I can feel someone else's pain so quickly and so easily, then the work is actually more

[00:00:07] about self-empathy and self-compassion so that you can extend that off to somebody else.

[00:00:17] Welcome to AwakenHer, the podcast where women find their strength and transform their pain

[00:00:22] into power.

[00:00:24] I'm Corissa Stepp, your guide on this journey of healing, growth and empowerment.

[00:00:30] Here we share the real stories of women who have faced life's toughest challenges and

[00:00:35] emerged stronger.

[00:00:36] Together with expert insights to light your path forward.

[00:00:40] Whether you're seeking to heal, grow or empower your life after heartache, AwakenHer

[00:00:45] is here to show you that not only has changed possible but you are capable of achieving

[00:00:51] more than you ever imagined.

[00:00:54] Let's dive into today's episode and take another step towards becoming your most empowered

[00:00:59] self.

[00:01:01] When we teach people how to be empathic, we're helping them focus on what they feel in connection

[00:01:10] with how do they feel when someone else is expressing their thoughts and emotions.

[00:01:17] True empathy isn't ignoring your feelings, it's the opposite.

[00:01:23] It's like going deep into your own experience of what you're noticing you feel as you're

[00:01:31] listening to your partner.

[00:01:35] If somebody has experienced trauma or their own feelings have not been validated,

[00:01:41] then we have to be very careful of honoring our own triggers and honoring if there's some

[00:01:49] feeling that doesn't feel safe, that we don't just plow through it and focus on what the

[00:01:55] other person is thinking and feeling just because we're trying to be empathic.

[00:01:59] It's a delicate balance.

[00:02:02] Daniel Goldman is really considered the father of empathy.

[00:02:08] He's done so much research about it and he differentiates it into three different levels

[00:02:16] of empathy.

[00:02:17] The first one is cognitive empathy.

[00:02:20] I get it, I can wrap my brain around why you feel what you feel.

[00:02:25] The thing about the cognitive empathy is sometimes that's a little bit of a safer place to start

[00:02:33] because you're just saying, okay, I'm going to try to understand you in terms of my

[00:02:40] intellectual perception of what you're explaining to me.

[00:02:45] Then the next level is then I'm feeling what you're feeling.

[00:02:50] That's called emotional empathy.

[00:02:52] That's I feel your pain and we can all relate to that if you are watching the news and you're

[00:02:59] hearing about a flood and you start to tear up.

[00:03:03] You're not experiencing a flood, but your emotions are authentically reacting because you have

[00:03:11] empathy for these people who are suffering from the flood.

[00:03:15] So that's the next level down.

[00:03:19] And then the third is empathic concern.

[00:03:22] And that's where your own world stops and it's like your partner's in pain and your own world.

[00:03:30] Really, you put aside whatever's going on for you and you're 100% really thinking about what

[00:03:36] does my partner need and willing to attune with them and not think about what you would

[00:03:42] need in that situation.

[00:03:44] That you know your partner well enough that you're able to just say, I'm here for you and

[00:03:51] I can figure out knowing who you are and what your love languages are, what's going to be

[00:03:58] supportive.

[00:03:59] But in order to have that happen there has to be first the intellectual understanding

[00:04:03] of why you're in pain.

[00:04:05] Secondly, to have the emotional attunement and then thirdly to be able to do that.

[00:04:10] So I would think that if somebody is experiencing trauma or if they had a past toxic relationship

[00:04:19] it might not be safe for them to go to that third deep level because they might put the

[00:04:27] other person above themselves and have their own suffering.

[00:04:32] So it's something to do in a slow gradual process where you've tested the waters

[00:04:38] and you know that it's safe.

[00:04:40] So generally I recommend that as you're getting to know someone and increasing your

[00:04:47] intimacy, you test out like how does this person respond when I'm being vulnerable?

[00:04:53] And if they are reacting with empathy then that shows me I can share a little bit deeper

[00:05:02] and that's how you're slowly kind of circling down to that level of depth so that nobody's

[00:05:09] doing a deep sea dive and risking emotional injury.

[00:05:13] In my opinion I'd love to hear what your experience is or if you would want to add to

[00:05:20] that or maybe tweak it a little bit.

[00:05:22] So I have, I guess I have my first question would be in the instance where

[00:05:28] you are kind of like dipping a toe and showing a little bit of vulnerability to see how

[00:05:32] your partner kind of responds so that it feels to test to see if it's safe enough

[00:05:38] emotionally to kind of go out on a little bit of a limb.

[00:05:43] What kind of response would we hope to get from our partner that would show us that

[00:05:47] they are empathetic or they're showing this empathic concern because here's the

[00:05:54] thing that I was thinking about.

[00:05:55] A lot of the women that I speak to who have experienced trauma from relationships and

[00:06:03] then their childhood, a lot of them actually have a high degree of empathic concern

[00:06:09] and what happens is they try to then rescue the person who's in pain.

[00:06:17] They try to go out of their way to alleviate the suffering of this other person because

[00:06:23] they feel it so deeply as if it's their own and they have a hard time.

[00:06:29] It's almost like an enmeshment, right?

[00:06:30] Which happens back from childhood.

[00:06:33] It's a pattern that's familiar where maybe there was an enmeshment with a parent or a caregiver.

[00:06:38] So they tend to just take it on as if it's their own.

[00:06:41] On the flip side of that, they can also end up sitting in a victim hood state

[00:06:47] where it's always someone else is doing it to me and I don't feel the empathy that this other person

[00:06:54] may be acting from a place of a wound that they hold and not be able to see that

[00:07:01] this person is not maliciously trying to hurt them potentially, right?

[00:07:06] Depending. It all depends.

[00:07:07] Sure.

[00:07:09] And they get stuck.

[00:07:10] They get stuck in that victim hood and they feel really stuck

[00:07:14] and they don't know how to get themselves out of it.

[00:07:17] And then they look for someone else to rescue them from the situation as the victim.

[00:07:22] Right, right.

[00:07:24] So this process, and I'm so glad you're bringing this up because

[00:07:27] it's a question that often comes up when you're just looking at the skill development

[00:07:32] of this is how to be empathic, right?

[00:07:37] Validate, paraphrase, emotionally emphasize all of those skills

[00:07:44] are things to do in a healthy relationship where there's a balance

[00:07:49] and that way you're receiving the same thing back from the other person.

[00:07:53] If there's an imbalance, then it is not recommended to follow that course of empathy

[00:08:01] because you risk your own emotional injury.

[00:08:08] So this idea of like, if I can feel someone else's pain so quickly and so easily,

[00:08:18] then the work is actually more about self-em empathy and self-compassion

[00:08:25] so that you can eventually extend that off to somebody else.

[00:08:32] But if you're not honoring your own emotions and feelings,

[00:08:37] then it's going to be very, very difficult to actually authentically,

[00:08:43] emotionally honor someone else's feelings because then sometimes it's coming from a place of fear.

[00:08:50] Like I need to take care of you so that you don't leave me and then my needs will be met

[00:08:55] as opposed to really doing the work to understand I'm good enough,

[00:09:00] I have self-worth and my feelings are just as important as your feelings.

[00:09:06] Yeah, definitely.

[00:09:07] So ultimately that's when we get to a place where we're empathizing but we're coming

[00:09:15] from being grounded in self-compassion, then it's the true empathy because if the empathic

[00:09:23] concern is my world stops when you're in pain, that's coming from a place of I'm grounded in

[00:09:31] a secure relationship that has commitment and trust so that I am not putting myself at risk

[00:09:37] for like letting go of my pain. So that makes sense if my partner was had a trauma

[00:09:47] happen at work where somebody got forbid, somebody got cancer or something and

[00:09:52] I had a really bad day because I had a lot of clients and I didn't get time to take my lunch break,

[00:10:00] then that's a balance. For me to not be, you know, not worry about my own day and my own stress

[00:10:07] but to be able to really be there for my partner in that grief or that fear or whatever

[00:10:12] that experience was that they were having at work. But if I feel like I can't talk to

[00:10:19] my partner about my own stressful day because I'm like, oh, it doesn't matter. I just saw a lot

[00:10:27] of clients where your pain was so much worse than mine. That's not what this is about. It's all about

[00:10:32] sequence and timing. So then I'm not going to choose that moment to talk about my stressful

[00:10:38] day if my partner is feeling intense pain but I know that there's room for me to also just

[00:10:48] be like, oh my gosh, I didn't even get my full lunch hour and just have my partner really empathize

[00:10:56] with that. Stinks like I know you've been really working on this and it's hard for you to set your

[00:11:01] boundaries and whatever kind of compassion that partner would provide. So the warning sign is

[00:11:08] if one starts to contain their own feelings, feel like they're not as valid or there's some

[00:11:14] kind of a hierarchy ultimately, which is different than a day-to-day hierarchy. And sometimes I help

[00:11:25] clients with that because it feels like we want our partner to be there for us and sometimes

[00:11:32] they're distracted or sometimes they're having a hard day and that doesn't mean that they don't

[00:11:36] love or care about us. It also just means okay, there's a time and place for things and

[00:11:41] and you want to make sure that you're having deep emotional conversations when everybody's in this

[00:11:47] space to do it. So I think capacity is different from timing and sometimes it's really useful

[00:11:54] to remember like, okay my partner can be empathic but none of us can be empathic 100% of the time

[00:12:03] and then we put a little less pressure on them. Thank you for tuning in to Awakener.

[00:12:09] Today's conversation may have ended but your journey towards healing and empowerment is ongoing.

[00:12:15] Remember every challenge you face is an opportunity to grow stronger and more resilient.

[00:12:20] If our stories today inspired you, consider sharing this episode with someone who needs

[00:12:25] these empowering messages. I'm Karissa Stepp, cheering you on as you take the steps to heal,

[00:12:31] grow and transform your life. Keep believing in yourself and until next time, stay empowered.